faker is the goat right but let's actually have the argument

fell down a faker career video essay rabbit hole and now i can't stop thinking about this. my position:
faker is the greatest player ever and the argument is basically closed. 6 world titles. 13 years at the highest level. still relevant. the longevity case alone is almost unanswerable. ik the cs guys are going to show up with s1mple and zywoo and someone's going to crawl out of a cave to tell me about flash. ready for it. make the case

zywoo is better than anyone active right now by clear gap. s1mple at his peak probably better than faker at his peak. individual skill in cs is different thing - 5v5, one life, you carry alone or team loses. faker wins with good teammates around him. s1mple was dragging teams to results they had no business winning.
different caliber of individual performance

i thought you are talkin bout lol lol

faker obv this isn't even a debate

going to get destroyed for this but flash not faker. flash!
brood war is the most mechanically demanding competitive game ever made. flash had a career win rate around 70% in a scene where 60% is considered elite. played random in one proleague tournament and still reached the semifinals. the man operates on a completely different level to anyone being named in this thread

None of these. Shroud picks up any fps and hits pro level within a week. That's your best gamer not someone who's been clicking the same buttons in the same game for 13 years straight

hd_toxic said:

None of these. Shroud picks up any fps and hits pro level within a week. That's your best gamer not someone who's been clicking the same buttons in the same game for 13 years straight

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shroud is a great streamer. his peak competitive cs was top 20 north america which at its height wasn't close to top 20 in the world. being impressive to an audience isn't the same category as being the best.

pixelboi said:

going to get destroyed for this but flash not faker. flash!
brood war is the most mechanically demanding competitive game ever made. flash had a career win rate around 70% in a scene where 60% is considered elite. played random in one proleague tournament and still reached the semifinals. the man operates on a completely different level to anyone being named in this thread

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don't want dismissing flash just know nothing about thta one honestly

@pixelboi 70% is off by a decent margin, flash's brood war win rate was closer to 80% ran some numbers on the main candidates anyway
faker: ~66% game win rate across 13 years in lck, 6 world titles, first player ever to reach 100 wins at worlds
flash: ~80% career win rate in brood war, primarily domestic korean scene
s1mple: 21 tournament mvps - record in cs history - hltv #1 three times, 1 major title, 1.23 career rating
zywoo: 1.27 career hltv rating, highest of any player ever, currently active flash leads on raw win rate but opponent pool and geographic scope are different factors. faker leads on longevity and global scope. zywoo leads on individual output. s1mple's mvp count is the most insane single number on the list and he did most of it without a major.
no statistically clean answer

ok i bet now i got it - you mean flash the starcraft player right?

_local_nerd_ said:

zywoo: highest sustained individual rating in tier 1 cs history, currently active

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yes. also zywoo doing this in era when cs is most globally competitive ever. every region serious now, not like early years when it was basically scandinavia plus small everyone else